Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 1 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
MendelMax 2.0 review
Author Message
johnbro Offline
Informant
*

Posts: 5
Joined: Jul 2013
Reputation: 0
Post: #1
MendelMax 2.0 review
i made a huge mistake purchasing the mendelmax 2,
i got carried away with the aesthetics and disregarded some fundamental design issues the printer has .
basically i didn't want to buy a printer that looked like a microwave, who could blame me.
first of all i will start with saying that i bought this product with the intention of printing solely ABS.
furthermore my experience with the company has been the most frustrating thing i have ever experienced,i
am putting this out there so no one has to endure the headaches that i have had and continue to have.

issue no. 1
according to their specifications the heated bed should be at 110 degrees Celsius so that the abs adheres to the bed.
the bed cant reach it and was topping out at 106. doesn't matter what you do, so i spent hours frustrated trying to
get a print started, everything was delaminating.
as i am neewbie to 3d printing i did a quick google search, and found that a little acetone mixed with abs would help.
problem solved, sort of. the bed still doesn't go beyond 106.

i addressed the issue with staff, they told me to cover the bottom of the printer with aluminum foil. now it doesn't
take a genius to realise that hot air rises and thats not going to increase the performance, not to mention how idiotic
i would feel about having something that i blew 2k on wrapped in aluminum foil. so it was put back on me, there was no "sorry sir, might be
a faulty heating unit we'll send you one straight away be patient." no i was treated like an idiot, "wrap some foil round it. "

i was impatient to start a print so i did it anyway with no success (what a shock).

issue no. 2
after playing around with the printer attempting to get some good results i started to hear a crackling sound similar
to plastic tape, i stopped the printer looked under the bed, Wow the heating element is completely delaminating from the
aluminum plate is affixed to.

so again i make contact and the response is, "hey go down to autobarn buy some gasket silicone and there Bobs your uncle, problem fixed."
"and i'll give you a ten dollar check to cover the costs." wtf!!!! not only is the heating element starting to burn out due to lack of adhesion.
it's going to take me my time and effort to rectify the problem with your printer. dude i'm not your guinea pig for you
to experiment your product on. in my head im thinking "i am a customer, i bought your piece of crap, rectify it yourself, send me a new one."

issue no. 3
i moved on to printing something larger, they provide a CAD drawing for an LCD box so that you can operate the printer without a computer.
i'm halfway through printing, it is about 3hrs into the print and the bed skips. the weight of the glass bed(570g) plus the weight of the part about 100g lead to
the stepper motor skipping, too much inertia for the little thing.

so once again i send them a msg, which are becoming increasingly aggressive due to the built up frustration. what is the reply?
just reduce the printing acceleration. so hold on, your selling me a product on certain speed performance now i'm meant
lessen it to something completely uninspiring??

anyway just to get it going again, i did just that. but after some thought i am really starting to question the design of the printer.
if you have a glass bed weighing 570g, an aluminum underlay around 100g, then a supporting Y plate and sliders adds an easy 400g.
you are talking 1.1kg of bed being thrust back and forth by a 5mm elastic belt. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that something
has got to give. thats the weight without the actual model that your printing, i was planning to print to the extremities of the printer,
if my model adds another 500g to the equation, the motor and elastic belt are completely under engineered, you'll significantly have
to compromise the acceleration. it's a stupid design to begin with. you have a constant variable: which is the size and weight of the
print. this print is being thrust back and forth on an axis. this isn't controlling variables to the best of ones ability. it's a joke by any designers or
engineers standards.


issue no. 4
this is the one that put the nail in the coffin.i am still trying to print the lcd holder, every so often the model splits.
mainly due to the temperature difference in my room and the temperature above the bed. abs seems to shrink dramatically.

once again i tell them my problem, i am advised to enclose the printer, the guy on the phone say's "i have my printer in a cardboard box,
it's 90 degrees C in there."

so i got my printer and put it in the cupboard (2m squared with some ventilation). i got an electric thermometer so i could read the
temp without having to open the cupboard and compromise the print with cold air. i fire the printer up again, all is good. temperature
is about 37 c constant. 3 hours later i decide to have a sneak peek at the part. F&*^Ck!!! The printer extruder is melted. the printer
has been cutting laps for 2 hours with no filament going in or out. At this point i am fuming, i have had enough of the mediocre advice
from the clowns at Makers tool works. basically i call them a buch of morons, i demand parts to fix it, which include: a new heater, a new
all metal extruder to handle the heat associated, and i also want some reimbursement for being F^&*cked around .

they ignore me, nothing , no "sorry sir, we apologize, we'll do anything to make you happy." I GOT SWEET ____.

i have now escalated this to a paypal claim. they have sent me an email denying me any further support.
Yeah that's the word's they used. if it wasn't for there support i would still have a printer to print with.
they can go to hell, they are trying to cover their ass for the paypal claim that is coming their way.

also i beg to wonder what would have happend to their printer if i put it in a box like the clown on the
phone told me. what then? would all the wiring melt down, one thing for certain all the PLA parts that
it's made of would be shot!

what i have learnt in my short time 3d printing is: 1. all high end professional printers are enclosed,
there is a reason for it, controlling the variables, every hour there are temperature changes. eliminate them
especially when printing with ABS. if an open printer claims that it can print abs i'd love to see it. and when i say print
i mean i want to see a large part with significant wall thickness.

2. do not buy a printer with a bed that travels horizontally, your printing speed is going to be significantly handicapped
as a result of physics. printers that have a bed that only moves vertically and the other two axis are covered by
the head are significantly superior. think about it, the head never gains or looses weight, it's constant, MUCH BETTER.
and much lighter than 1.1kg of bed ,heater, support and sliders not to mention the printed object.

3. Get an all metal head and extruder, it makes sense, you've got 130 degrees or more generated by the head
110 degrees over the bed, add slight enclosure, it not a place for plastics especially not thermoplastics
like the PLA that the Mendelmax 2 is made of.

now that i have done my apprenticeship in 3d printing the wrong way, can someone please suggest
a good product for ABS in 2k-3k price bracket. Also this is a short hand account of what happened
there were other stupid things thrown at me that are just insulting to the brain.
07-24-2013 11:51 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
MakersToolWorks Offline
Home of the MendelMax
*

Posts: 1
Joined: Jul 2013
Reputation: 0
Post: #2
RE: MendelMax 2.0 review
We cannot respond to any specifics of this case, however we want to state clearly and for the record that we are happy to replace any defective products. In some cases, a replacement may not be the most practical solution, so when there are simpler solutions we may propose them as an alternative. We will always offer a replacement of a defective item if the customer requests according to our published policies.

We will be happy to respond to the specific complaints that our customer has raised once the dispute is resolved. If anyone has specific questions about our support policies or the technical issues that have been raised, they are welcome to email support@makerstoolworks.com.

The poster here has filed a PayPal claim, entering arbitration for a partial refund, and as a result of PayPal rules we were instructed to cease non-PayPal communication. Below is our last response to the PayPal claim:

Hi [customer],

We are sorry that you have been unable to get your printer working. We have over 300 other MendelMax 2 kits in the field at this point, the vast majority of which are printing without difficulty. The printer is a well engineered, quality product, and we fully stand behind what we sell. We are happy to provide replacements for any parts that are defective, and we agree that the bed heater is defective due to poor adhesion We apologize for that, unfortunately that was a defective product we received from a supplier. We do our best to maintain high quality control, but a previously reliable supplier changed adhesive without advising us, so unfortunately we had no way to know about the problem until after we had shipped several of the heaters out. We will also provide you with the replacement hot end retainer, though contrary to your claim we did not tell you to enclose the printer, merely to shield it from drafts.

Unfortunately, we cannot accept responsibility for user error or guarantee that our customers have the necessary technical skills to build and operate the printer. Like many other products, 3D printers require certain technical skills, especially one that is sold as a kit. We do our best to be honest about the skills needed-- certainly we are more upfront about it than almost any other company in the industry-- but we have no way to actually confirm that our customers have those skills. We're happy to consult with potential customers, but you never contacted us prior to purchasing to confirm whether the printer was suitable for you. Our first contact with you was after you had purchased the printer. We try to give an honest assessment of the issues people will face when people have questions, but we cannot do that if you do not ask any questions prior to purchase.

3D Printing is hard. I truly believe that our printer makes it as easy as possible, however it is still challenging. Read the mailing lists for ANY 3D printer company and you will see people having the exact same issues you are having. It takes time and patience to get good prints, but if you put in the effort, you will be rewarded.

In spite of your hostility, we are acting on some of the issues you have raised. Only one out of 300 people have failed to set the proper PSU voltage, but we are adding a sticker to the PSU box to help prevent future blown fuses. We are launching a forum to make it easier for people to ask questions and share tips and tricks. This had been in our long term plans all along, but at your prodding we have moved it up in our priority list. And of course, if you have any constructive feedback on our docs, we will absolutely roll them into future versions. We do respond to customer feedback, and we do so more quickly than just about any company you are likely to come across. But the reality is some people cannot be pleased, and it seems like from the very beginning you had decided that we were to blame for any and all problems you had, and that has colored your opinion every step of the way from then on. At this point, I do not believe you will be satisfied by anything we do.

I am a firm believer in free speech. You have certainly have a right to voice your opinion. Unfortunately, you do NOT have a right to blackmail us, and we will not tolerate that. Comments like "how many customers are you happy to loose, 1 ,2, 10 , 100 balls in your court" seem to betray your true objective. You may have thought that would cause us to waiver, but the reality is your stance makes us stand our ground even more strongly. We firmly feel that we have provided you with the highest quality product and support possible, and we honestly believe our satisfied customers and customer service record (including our lengthy support discussions with you) back us up on that.

The ball is now in yours and PayPal's court since you initiated the claim. We cannot proceed with any additional support until the claim is settled by PayPal or by yourself.

This correspondence will be added to the requested files from Paypal, as well as your public threats on our Facebook page. Please use the PayPal channels for all future correspondence, as PayPal's dispute system dictates.

Thank you,
Jeff Davis
CEO, Maker's Tool Works
07-25-2013 05:12 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jakezilla Offline
Informant
*

Posts: 2
Joined: Jul 2013
Reputation: 0
Post: #3
RE: MendelMax 2.0 review
I signed up for the beta for the MedelMax 2.0 to be my first printer, knowing full well there would be growing pains with a beta, and it being my first printer, that I would have a lot to catch up on.

Surprisingly, the process was anything but painful. I won't lie, I had a couple parts that were missing or needed replacing, but communication was always fast (even at 10pm) and shipping was very quick. I am confident that my issues and feedback made their retail release better. Their coverage of shipping fees and parts cost I felt were always more than fair. They have a ticket system on their site, Google Group with a great archive of conversations, chat room with a company representative almost always on, and good old fashioned email. I don't know of any other site that is as accessible as MTW. I am still learning how to make my prints better and better, but I am already cranking out some great prints.

There are tens of thousands of RepRap derivatives that work with the same method of extruder X, bed Y, extruder carrier Z that work great, so I am not sure where you comment of
"do not buy a printer with a bed that travels horizontally" is based.

I am not going to attack you, because I don't know you or all of the specifics of this situation, but I can say your representation of MTW and the MM2.0 does not match my experience, nor the experience of anyone I have talked to on the support forum or chat room.
07-25-2013 07:12 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
johnbro Offline
Informant
*

Posts: 5
Joined: Jul 2013
Reputation: 0
Post: #4
RE: MendelMax 2.0 review
i wish i could say the same, you are one lucky guy. nice script btw.
simple physics dude, i assume ineratia still exists, i finished my industrial design degree ( thats college in murica) about 10yrs ago but i'm assuming the laws of physics havn't changed in that time. that's an assumption, don't take it at face value by all means do your own research.
07-25-2013 10:29 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jakezilla Offline
Informant
*

Posts: 2
Joined: Jul 2013
Reputation: 0
Post: #5
RE: MendelMax 2.0 review
Not sure what you mean by script.
You are indeed correct, inertia does indeed still exist. What you are suggesting is - it is impossible for a printer to have a sufficiently powered stepper motor that is able to move a print bed with sufficient acceleration. History and the market has shown that suggestion to be false. The RepRap project started out with XY head Z bed, and went to the MM2.0's design of XZ head Y bed. You can hear one of the designers talking about the benefits of this change in the beginning of this video - http://vimeo.com/6983001# There are dozens of derivatives of this design and thousands of printers in homes and workshops that move this way.

I'm not sure moving the extruder in the Y direction is going to get you any closer to removing your 'rapidly accelerating a mass' problem. You are going to now have to move the whole X carriage in the Y direction. Just the geared stepper motor weighs over 500grams, and the stepper motor that moves the hotend weighs 454grams. Not including the extrusions, linear guides, belt, hardware, hotend, fan, fan duct, and endstops, you are already trying to move the same weight of the bed. I guess you could try to take weight out of these parts, but like I said, just the motors themselves weigh as much as the bed.

Like I said in my previous post, I am just a 3D printer n00b, not affiliated with MTW, and I don't want to attack you. I am more than a 'lucky guy', I am one of the hundreds of happy customers with the MM2.0. I hope that you can find a printer/company that satisfies your desires, because 3D printing is pretty awesome, but I am not sure how you are going to beat MTW.
07-26-2013 02:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
johnbro Offline
Informant
*

Posts: 5
Joined: Jul 2013
Reputation: 0
Post: #6
RE: MendelMax 2.0 review
are you that stupid that you don't realize that the printer doesn't thrust back and forth on the z axis? it only moves incrementally at layer thicknesses. surely not, but then again your a happy customer, some peoples expectations are so low that they are never disappointed. ignorance can be bliss. i am genuinely happy that you are happy. i am unhappy because i have been lied to, have been fed absolute rubbish and no attempt has been made to resolve this problem. as it stands i have $2000 printer with a melted down extruder head, that skips on the y axis that has a delaminated bed and it can't reach 110 degrees Celsius. that isn't in the Makers F#$#CKWHIT Toolworks advertisment.
07-26-2013 03:27 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
johnbro Offline
Informant
*

Posts: 5
Joined: Jul 2013
Reputation: 0
Post: #7
RE: MendelMax 2.0 review
some photos to illustrate my problem
   
   
   
   

some pics of my problems with the printer

more pics
   
   
   
   

the first part picture is an illustration of what happens when the bed skips, the rest are cracking due to environmental problems.


Attached File(s) Image(s)
   
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2013 06:36 AM by johnbro.)
07-27-2013 06:30 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)